Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Okay, how about me.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Thoughts on why that is? But I'm sure you hope.
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Question is.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Are you doing it massively or abundance? Like it's, it's.
What's up everybody? Welcome to another episode.
Today we have a special guest, Mr. Brian Hite. Welcome to the podcast.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: I appreciate you having me. Thank you.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: Absolutely. So this is going to be an interesting conversation because I am very interested to see, hear a lot from you and this is probably a subject I don't know as much about. So I'm interested to see what you have to say about a lot of different topics, but also hear your insight. So why don't you tell everybody a little bit before we get started what you do, because I think it's extremely interesting.
[00:01:01] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I mean, I do a lot of things.
The shortest way that I've answered that question is high stakes performance expert. And that takes a lot of forms.
I do keynotes, I do workshops, I work on a retainer basis with corporations, first responders, not, not so far, education, but hopefully education pretty soon.
And, and I'm also a stuntman. I'm an author, I have a book. So I, I do a lot of things. But it all falls underneath that umbrella of high stakes performance. How do we perform and how do we be at our best, both in short term and long term, when we deal with situations where the consequences really matter? That's what I mean by high stakes. When the consequences are important, when there's a big difference between what happens if you succeed and what happens if you fail.
In those moments, how do we bring out the best of who we are and how do we sustain those performances over time, particularly when our jobs require that over the course of not, just, you know, days or weeks, but months and years.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: That's interesting.
On this podcast, usually what we do is we go back to early years. I'd love to know how you grew up, what family life was like, where it was, what got like. Try and bridge this gap from how you grew up and in your life in early years and how you ended up where you are, especially the stuntman piece. So I'd love to kind of hear a little bit about. Tell us about your early years and tell us a little bit about where you started.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: Well, I mean, the earliest, I was born in Atlanta, Georgia and we lived there until I was six. And that's where my parents bought their very first house. And that's really my first memory. I don't remember living anywhere other than in that house. I don't know how old I was when we moved into it, probably, I'm guessing three or four, but that's. That's my earliest memory. And it was a great little house. I remember it was at the end of a cul de sac. There was a little hill. So I learned how to ride a bike in that. In that space. I remember that there was a creek in the backyard I used to play in and swim in. It was kind of. It was, you know, deep. For a little kid, that was a lot of fun. It was a very cool little house. And then we moved from Atlanta, when I guess in Atlanta was my very first stunt experience.
You want to call it that. I remember very vividly.
It snowed. And a friend of mine and I went out and we rolled a big snowball. We made a big snowball.
And I had it in my head. I was going to do like the cartoons and ride my bike down the hill as fast as I could go and smash into the snowball and have it, you know, blow up into all the pieces. I just ride right through it.
Well, that's not how that works. And so I went barreling down the hill, all set to do it, and hit that snowball. Bike came to a immediate stop. I did not. Kept going over the handlebars, over the snowball lands around my face, on the other side. But it was that kind of.
That kind of stuff that just would regularly occur to me. I would see things I would think would be fun, different challenges. I wonder if I can. And that thought would come into my mind, and I'd try. And that was a theme throughout my childhood.
So I do believe that that did contribute to the stunts in some kind of way. But that's the first memory that I have of anything related to that. That was in Atlanta. And then we moved to Oklahoma, and I lived there in Bartlesville between the ages of 6 and 12 or 13.
And that was a pretty good house, too. We had a big backyard, and. And I remember spending a lot of time in that backyard. There was a cement wall. So it was kind of a. It was a dual layer. Layer thing. There was a. There was an upper yard that was relatively small, and then it dropped down to a lower yard, and there was a cement wall there. And I used that to throw baseballs against. I would practice baseball. I practice pitching to throw the baseball against it and practice ground balls because it would bounce off.
I had soccer balls. I would kick the soccer ball against the wall. I just. I. I just used the wall as another person. Yeah, we did. We had some fruit Trees in, in the backyard. We had some plum trees, we had some pecan trees.
So I remember, I remember a lot, eating a lot of plums over, over the course of that time in that place.
[00:05:24] Speaker B: Were you an only child?
[00:05:25] Speaker A: I had a sister. She was six or I have a sister, she was five and a half years younger than, than I am. So she doesn't really factor in much to my life. We were too far apart. We didn't, we weren't really involved in any of the same things at that point. We weren't interested in any of the same stuff.
So she was around, but, but wasn't really a big part of who I was growing up. But that place in, in, in, in Oklahoma was actually where I had my first experience with gymnastics. My mom used to love watching gymnastics on tv. And so, you know, back then there were, I don't know, however many channels. There were not many. So whatever the parents wanted to watch, that's what we watched. And so when gymnastics was on, that was, that was what I watched too. And, and I, and, and I remember it was the 1984 Olympics watching that. I remember watching gymnastics and then going out in the backyard and teaching myself how to do round off and then round off, back handspring and then round off back handspring, back tuck. Not prettily. It was, they were very ugly. But I was, but I was, you know, getting around. Yeah, I was. Yeah, I was getting around. And that was my first experience with, with gymnastics. And I'd kind of, I had kept those skills at least around, off back talk up and up through college where I kind of learned a little bit more stuff.
So there was plenty of space in that, in that, that house, that yard to do those kinds of things. I had friends down the hill, so I spent a lot of time riding my bike back and forth to their house, climbing up in mulberry trees, building ramps and jumping our bikes in different, different ways. A lot of stuff. It was a great little neighborhood, you know, it was, it was the kind of neighborhood that for me as a parent, I really wanted for, for my kids.
[00:07:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:11] Speaker A: Where I could just truly, I could just walk out the door. There was a big bell in the backyard. My mom would ring the bell when it was time for me to come home, and I'd come home.
So it was, that was a great little place.
And that's, that's up through 13. I don't know if you have any questions or so. No, not any of that.
[00:07:28] Speaker B: You know, that's interesting. So you pretty much Seems like you had a normal childhood, almost to some degree, an only child. I mean, you had your sister, but you guys weren't into the same things.
Not much of an influence, it sounds like. So what happened after 13? I mean, walk me through, like, how did you.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: What.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: What got you into the stuntman experience? And did you guys move? Are you still in Oklahoma? That's a. And was your stunt experience in California? How did you bridge that gap?
[00:07:54] Speaker A: Yeah, in. In. When I was around 13, we moved to Nashville, Tennessee. And. And that's.
And that's where I'm at now. It's where I say that I'm from because. Because my parents never really moved from there. So even though I left and moved around the world, you know, or not around the world, but around the country a lot, and that's the place I always came back to. So I say I'm originally from Nashville, but we didn't move there until I was in eighth grade. And I was involved in soccer. Soccer was a sport that I started early on. Soccer and baseball were the two main ones I did play. I did try wrestling for a little while. That didn't take. I did try basketball for a minute. That didn't take either.
But soccer and baseball stuck. So when I was in Nashville, I played on a travel soccer team in the fall, and I played indoor in the winter, and then I played in the school league in the spring, and then I played baseball in the summer. So it was. It was sports all year round, but mainly soccer.
And that was. That was through high school. And.
I don't know, you know, I mean, like you said, growing up, it's. It's a typical middle class kind of thing. And. And along with that came expectations of, here's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to graduate from high school and then go to college, and then you finish college and then you get a job and you have a family and you do. You do the life.
Like, that's how you do it. And I. That was. I don't think anybody ever sat me down explicitly to say, all right, here, Brian, here's your path. Here's what you do. But it was understood that that's what. That's what was happening.
And I was always good in school, but I hated school from the time that I entered it. I didn't like school.
So, you know, it was just kind of one of those things that I tolerated. I got decent grade. I got good enough grades so that I didn't get yelled at. That was my goal. I just, I didn't put in a whole bunch of straight A's, but I didn't want to get bad enough grades where it caused problems for anybody that just, it was just enough to get, get done what needed to get done.
And, and that was great. But here, two, two really.
Well, one really impactful thing that happened in high school was I joined a drama class.
And that was weird for me because I hated public speaking. I was terrified. I remember me being in fifth grade and, and, and just being petrified about going up and doing an oral report on sharks.
I tried everything I could to get out of it, and, and it didn't happen. And so this, this, this joining of drama was, was kind of strange. I'm not even really sure what the impetus was. I don't know what was. In my mind, something was required in a certain category, and I think it was just the lesser of all the evils, whether it was printing or art or, you know, I don't know, something in those things. All right, what's, what's the thing that I'm going to hate the least? Let's go with drama. But that was the best experience of my high school life. That and that and psychology classes. So the two things that I went on to, to, to really pursue in a professional way, I, I experienced in high school. I took my very first psychology class in high school and was fascinated with memory and perception and just all of the different ways that the mind influences us and, and, and really shapes the way that we understand the world.
And then the drama class, that was the best teacher I've ever had in my life. Kent Cathcart just made such a strong, had such strong influence on me and the way that, that I viewed my life, because at that point, it was just about achievements.
Here's the assignment. Get it done. Here's. Here's the grade. Get it finished. And, and he really introduced me to process, to the moment, to being involved in something for the sake of the thing at all and, and really giving value to that, because I felt that way in, in sports. But that wasn't valued in my world. That wasn't, that was a secondary thing. That was, that was only if you were able to, to get the school done to whatever standard somebody set, then you got to participate in this thing that you loved. But he really brought that idea of, of here's something that you can be passionate about, you can be involved in the moment, fully engaged, and it's not even about the outcome at all. It's about the process so that was a big thing for him. And.
And those two things shaped me. He introduced me to a guy who. Who hired me at my very first entertainment job. I was a technician at a theme park that doesn't exist anymore. It was called Opryland back in the day. And there were shows, and I coiled microphone cords and moved set pieces around. And that was. That was my first experience with. With shows.
And it was in that show that my stage manager, who ended up being the company manager of the Batman stunt show. That's where I met him. And when I went to college at Rutgers in New Jersey, this same guy, his name was Paul, he was my stage manager at Opryland, ended up being the company manager of the Batman stunt show at the Six Flags in New Jersey. Got me tickets to see the show. I went and saw the show and was hooked up. Was hooked. I mean, immediately hooked. From the minute that the. The show started. And about 30 seconds in, not even probably about 15 seconds in, some big explosion happened. Motorcycles came jumping out of this thing, and I was eyeballs big, just mesmerized for the next 20 minutes. And because I knew Paul, I was able to go backstage and talk to the performers and ask them, how do you get this job? How do you. How do you get to do this for. I couldn't even believe it was a job. Yeah, I grown up watching Lee Majors on the Fall Guy. I understood that stunt people were a thing that wasn't. I wasn't completely ignorant, but putting it together as something you could do for a career, that had never occurred to me until that moment. And they told me what I needed to do to get the job. You know, high falls, motorcycles, fights, and go to the audition, see what happens. So that's what I did. I got that job. I did that job the summer after my junior year of college, and.
And it was the best summer of my life. It was the best summer I've ever. I was making more money than I'd ever had. I was learning so many things. I was. And it was all cool stuff.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:21] Speaker A: I was learning how to do. I was riding motorcycles and taking this ATV and spinning it around on stage. It was so many fun things.
And once that summer was over and it was time to start school again, which I told you before, I hated all the way up through.
It was incredibly hard to get motivated to do anything related to school. So I didn't. And I just about failed out completely the first semester of my senior year and was failing for sure the second semester. So I dropped all the classes dropped out of college with one semester to go. Did the. Stuck around long enough to do the show one more summer in New Jersey and then moved to LA to. To be a stuntman in film and TV and.
And luckily the Six Flags in LA had the exact same show as New Jersey. So I did that same show in la. And through that I met.
I don't know how you think about it, like. Like my cohort of people. It's like a college class, you know, you kind of come up in the. In the ranks with. That's where I met them is in this stunt show. The guy who's the second director and stunt coordinator on Stranger Things, won multiple Emmys, Met him there. We were roommates for. For two and a half years.
Another guy who's the assistant stunt coordinator on the new Odyssey movie that Christopher Nolan's shooting right now, he met him there. So many different people who've worked in these big shows. I met them all there and we came up in the business together and started film and TV together, and that's what I did.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: I'm always fascinated when I hear someone talk about whether it's an actor. Usually it's an actor where they're on a podcast or show and they talk about, you know, how they used to.
Before they really were stars or whatever, and they. They talk about other people that they were living with or rooming with or hanging out with, and it's all these other big names and it's just funny to hear those stories about because it's just like anything else, right? And you're all trying to do your thing and everybody has to start somewhere. And so I'm always just fascinated to hear those stories and the process. So that's cool. So you basically went from Nashville to Jersey and then out to LA.
So you're in L. A, you're a stuntman for 30 years. You stayed in L. A for the 30 years or were you all over the place?
[00:16:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I was in LA. I was in L. A for probably about 10 little over 10 years, I guess the first time it was. I was moved out there in 96, and about four or five years later is when I decided I wanted to finish the bachelor's degree. So. So I started figuring out how to do that and I ended up back out at Rutgers in.
Was it. Oh, I mean, it took a while. It took almost 10 years. I guess seven or eight years is how long it took to get back out to Rutgers, because back then there wasn't. You couldn't Just do it online. I had to go physically back to the school and live for a semester, but I did that and finished the bachelor's degree and then continued on with.
Well, moved back to LA and then continued on with a master's degree in sports psychology and a PhD in organizational psychology while I was doing stunts and, and never with the intention of working in, in that field. It was just, it was so interesting to me, like I was said before, just the power of the mind and, and, and, and the applicability of what I was learning in each of those fields to the work I was doing in stunts. And it was, it was not just a, an academic, theoretical exercise. I was able to take what I was reading and writing and, and implement it in my life and to see real meaning right away.
And, and that was pretty exciting too.
So I was in LA for another. Yeah. So I, so I did all of that. Was in LA until 2007, where I. Because I'd met a woman and that came with a stepdaughter and because stunts, entertainment in general, but, you know, it's just very volatile. The work is uncertain. You never know when you're going to work or for how long you're going to work or even where you're going to work. And with a family, that was, that was kind of. That was a little bit scary. So I started looking for a real job, and turns out that there aren't a lot of those for people even with a master's degree who, you know, haven't done anything but fall down for a living. But one of those jobs that was available was sport performance psychology consultant for the U.S. army. So I did that job at Fort Lewis in Washington state for two years, got a divorce, went back to LA, did stunts again full time for another four or five years. Rinse and repeat. Met another woman that came with another stepdaughter and my daughter.
And the same thing. I was like, all right, well, is there a real job available? Turns out the army had another job right outside Nashville at Fort Campbell, so we moved back here. I started working at Fort Campbell, always doing stunts. I never stopped doing stunts. It was, it just was not what I did full time.
So when I was in Washington, I worked on a show called Banshee that shot in Portland, I think it was. Worked on the Twilight movies shot in Portland, a couple other movies in Spokane. So. So I was able to do that.
I moved to Nashville. The TV show Nashville was shooting. And I still had friends that would bring me out to other places too. And if it worked out with my schedule, I'd go do it. So stunts never went away. But I was full time army sport performance psychology consultant for about nine years at Fort Campbell.
And, and then I just, you know, that that job ran its course. Ran its course probably about four or five years before I left it, but I left it when I did about two and a half years ago to open my own business. Sport and performance psychology consulting primarily with athletes and performing artists was where it started.
But I realized a couple things. One is the individual work I enjoy, but I wanted more than that. I really enjoy being on stages. I really enjoy the group work in workshops. I really enjoy the longer term organizational work of, of with retainers. So that was missing. The other thing that was missing is, is being, being able to bring in the stunt part of my life. It was such a huge part of, of who I am and what I've done.
And, and to not have that work really explicitly feed what I was doing seemed off. And so I reevaluated what I was doing. That's where the high stakes environments came in. I realized, you know what, this is where I have expertise. This is where the 10 years that I spent working with the military, the 30 years that I've spent doing stunts, all of that is in these situations where the consequences truly do matter.
And, and it, and, and I've seen people fall apart. I've seen people who are fully, they're talented, they're competent, and they just lose it under those conditions.
So what is that about? I really got curious and, and started to develop my programs based on a lot of things. It's, it's where the theoretical literature, the empirical literature, and my own experiences with those populations and environments come together. So that's where I've developed my work out of. And it really feels more whole for me. I feel like I'm able to bring all of myself into my job now because I'm not trying to figure out, all right, am I wearing the sports psychology hat today or am I wearing the stuntman hat today or am I wearing the author hat today? Or, you know, it does. Yeah, whatever.
[00:21:56] Speaker B: It's all combined.
[00:21:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:57] Speaker B: So it's all, it all makes up who you are and what you do now. And so you can combine them all and you don't have to worry about doing three separate things. It's the same thing every time.
[00:22:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:07] Speaker B: You know, it's funny, you're, you're talking about this and the whole time I can't get this out of my head. I'm in the middle of. I read a lot and I'm reading a book right now. I don't know if you've ever read Arnold Schwarzenegger's book Total Recall. Have you ever read that book?
So I heard about it recently and I was like, I'll add that to my list. And I'm rifling through it. But he talks about how he said something in the book yesterday that I heard and I was like, oh, this is, this is interesting. It's popping in my head right now. But he talks about how some people would get on stage when he was first learning that he wanted to be on stage and do performance shows, you know, Mr. Austria, all that kind of stuff.
And he was saying how, like, some people would get on stage and they just would fall apart, they just wouldn't do well. And then some people would get on stage and they just couldn't get enough that, like, fed them. Right. And that was what he was talking about. So I'm thinking, I'm listening to what you're saying and I'm wondering. There's some people that they, they naturally have that gift of like, that's their, that's their place they need to be, right? But I. I don't. I'm wondering if they need just as much work at as everybody else to make sure that they meet the moment or perform as where. Where they need to perform.
Or is it something that certain people need more of than others? I'm just curious.
[00:23:26] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I mean, my perspective on that is it's just like anything else. I mean, each of us has talents and natural abilities to one degree or another, and they exist not in a black or white sense. They exist on a continuum.
And with work and improvement, we can push that continuum to the right. And if we don't work on stuff, we'll either stay where we are or even deteriorate. And I think that the skills and the things that you're talking about are kind of the same thing. I think that some people have a more natural ability to perform in those moments than do other people.
But can they get better at it? Can they ensure more consistency? Because we don't always walk into those things that are best. And.
And the thing is, most of those people who are doing well don't know why they are. They simply trust that it will happen, and most of the time it does, and that's worked out well for them. But what if it doesn't? They don't have any skills or strategies. Maybe, for example, you know, you take Somebody like that who tends to do naturally well at those performance situations. Well, right before, let's say that they learned that a grandparent died, or they have an argument with a spouse or a loved one or a friend, or they have some sort of nagging pain or sickness or injury, whatever it is, that. That throws them off a little bit. They don't know how to. To.
They have no skills, they have no tools to. To. To recenter. To put themselves into that place where they're able to do their best because they don't know why they're able to be in that place in the first place. So what I talk to people about a lot is, is really, it's. It's not that I. I don't. I like to say I don't really teach a whole lot of new things that people don't already do or aren't familiar with. I put a name to those things that many people do and I provide them with a structure that allows them to do those things more effectively, more efficiently than they would otherwise. In other words, they're able to do well on purpose rather than on accident, which is what you're kind of describing. You know, if it's our natural skill and we just kind of do it, we. We don't really know how it happens, just sort of does.
But if we can have these skills, then that's great. And the other piece that I really focus on, and I don't care who you are, this stuff is going to be there no matter what your natural talent level is to deal with. It is stress and pressure and burnout too. Because in the, In. In the short term moment, stress and pressure can tend to throw us off of our game a lot. So where does stress come from? Where does pressure come from? What distinguishes one from the other? And how do I help ensure that I am not debilitated by either?
That's really important.
The. And then the burnout over the course of time. Again, you know, if the example that I like to use is just as a stuntman, I'll be on set and they will have hired me to do a job. Just so Monday night I was. I got hired to get hit by lightning on this show. So I hit by lightning a fall down. That's a single moment. That's one moment in time for performance.
So how do I make sure I do that with. Without stress, without pressure, and in that moment? Well, then today comes and next week comes and next month comes, next year comes, the next thing. You know, 30 years have gone by, so how do you maintain a career over time where these high stakes moments are the norm and how do you do that without burning out?
So I think that's important for people too in terms of longevity. So again, I don't care what your natural abilities are. There are going to be times when you're in a situation that you perceive as a threat and you doubt your abilities to handle it. You're going to be in situations where your attention is naturally going to shift to the consequences to the potential outcomes and you're going to experience pressure. And there will be times when you find yourself giving and giving and giving and pushing and pushing and pushing and, and leaning toward going into that burnout, whether from emotional exhaustion or cynicism or lack of personal accomplishment. Those are the three things that, according to Maslock's theory of burnout, contribute. But, but you're going to be there. So how do you recognize that stuff more quickly? How do you have tools that allow you to alleviate it more efficiently and just maximize the likelihood of bringing the best of who you are in any given situation? And not only from a performance standpoint, but from a well being standpoint. This is a life satisfaction thing too. It's not just about, all right, let me just perform at a blue ribbon level. We all want to do that, but we also want to do that and maintain some level of happiness and well being in not just our performance lives, but our whole lives.
[00:28:23] Speaker B: When you talk about pressure and stress, I, I start to think about, you know, I'm a business coach, I have multiple businesses as well, and I think about different things that I do and things that might be high pressure. You mentioned, you know, the people that don't get a lot of credit, police officers, you know, ems, military personnel, they all have immense pressure and stress all the time.
Then I think about people like I might do things I've done in the past, whether it's a physical event, you know, a running event or a physical whatever event or like a business thing where you're on stage and you have to perform and do like what you do too. Right. So does it differ based on all these? It sounds like you've come up with some systems. I think that, okay, it doesn't really matter what you're doing. If you follow this process that I've come up with or this system, this will help you get through it. This will help you not have these stages of burnout. I, I guess is what I'm hearing.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: So, yeah, well, stress and pressure too. So let's, let's let's. Yeah, you're right. Let's, let's back up to that. So, okay, my, my, here's what I say. I say that. And this is not just me, but this is, this is the assumption that I like to challenge. The assumption is what you just said. People say it all the time. When you're in the situation, of course, it's high pressure, it's high stress. Police officers, they have it all the time. Big business people, all the time, Stress, pressure. But you don't have to because it's not the situations that determine whether we experience stress or pressure, it is us. There's no such thing as a high stress environment. As a high pressure job, they don't exist. They're simply environments and simply jobs. Whether we experience stress or pressure is up to us.
[00:29:59] Speaker B: I love that.
[00:30:00] Speaker A: And that's an easy thing to demonstrate to people. You know, I mean, for example, you and I might find ourselves in exactly the same situation.
I might experience stress, you feel no stress. Or I might feel pressure, you don't feel pressure. But we're sitting in the same spot with the same expectations required of us. How is that possible if it's for real?
[00:30:22] Speaker B: Interesting. That's a really interesting statement. Yeah, it's really interesting to me.
So what is the reason that I might create stress and pressure when it doesn't really exist?
[00:30:34] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I talk about stress and pressure as illusions. And, and they're illusions, not in the sense of they don't really exist because they do. They're, they're very tangible, they're very visceral, they're very real and they have very real impacts. They're illusions in the same way as the very famous illusion of that Pretty much everybody's seen of the old lady and the young lady. There's a picture, and if you look at it one way, it looks like an old lady wearing a shawl with a big nose. If you look at it a different way, it looks like a young lady with big hair and a necklace. The picture itself is what it is. It doesn't change. The data are stable.
It's our perception that makes it one way or the other. We either experience that situation, that picture as an old lady, or we experience that situation, the picture as a young lady. And how we experience it's entirely up to our perspective. So that our lives are the same way. Whether we are in a situation and experience stress or pressure depends entirely on how we are viewing that situation.
So if you want to get into like the eaches of that of stress and pressure and what will determine that? We certainly can. But at the end of the day, that's, that is if people just recognize that, that stress and pressure are not inherent in any situation.
They are not objectively present anywhere in any circumstance.
They just. I mean, at least within the situation itself, we bring that to, to those moments.
So, so that's important. And it's not. This is not even coming from me. This is, this is at least 2,000 years ago. There was a Stoic philosopher named Epictetus who said, it's not events that disturb us, it's our judgments about those events that disturb us.
Literally more than 2,000 years ago, this is the foundation of cognitive psychology, where there's an activating event and then there are thoughts and understandings and interpretations of that event, and that leads to our emotions and behaviors. So this is not me making this up, but it is something that I think gets lost in these high stakes environments because people are assuming that they must experience stress or pressure and they. And they don't.
And I've experienced it personally myself. What really led me to be curious about this is about eight months ago, I worked on a show called Righteous Gemstones.
And the stunt was I was in the back of a truck, it was an suv. I was driving down this dirt road and it hit a bump and the back of it popped up. I came flying out the back, hit the ground and roll. And that's what I did.
And I did that stunt before it, during it, the whole experience, there was no stress, there was no pressure. I was enjoying myself. I was completely engaged.
But about 20 years earlier, I'd done something almost identical. I was on a show. It was a show called vip. It was a Pamela Anderson show. She was starring in it. And I was in the back of a truck, driving down the road and got thrown out the back of the truck, come flying out, hit the ground and roll. But before that stunt, I felt a lot of stress and pressure.
So it's the same situation. I'm coming out the back of a truck with 50 people watching me and a lot of money on the line and whatever.
But in one situation I experience stress and pressure. The other I don't. Why is that? If there were such a thing as a high pressure, high stress situation, I gotta believe that getting thrown out the back of a moving vehicle would be. That would qualify.
But it did in one situation and it didn't in the other.
So, so that's, that's really the difference was your outlook.
[00:34:10] Speaker B: You're saying the difference was how you perceived it.
[00:34:12] Speaker A: The difference is this pressure. Stress and pressure often get conflated. They get treated like they are the same thing and they're not.
Pressure comes from a focus on outcomes. It is a focus on what follows. If I screw this up, then, whatever follows. The then or, or. And this is something that most people don't pay attention to or aren't aware of.
If I get this right, then if I knock this out of the park, then if, if I kill this presentation, if I, if I, if I take care of this thing, whatever it is, and I do it really well, my ticket's punched, my career trajectory is set.
That creates pressure. When our attention is focused on the potential outcomes, the consequences, not necessarily success or failure. It's not about success or failure. It's about our attention being on the consequences of success or failure.
The more extreme, and the more we care about those consequences, the more likely we are to experience pressure. So pressure is the result of where our attention is, is which is on the consequences in the future.
That's where that comes from. And a sense of have to. So if we have this sense of have to, we must, we're compelled to.
[00:35:28] Speaker B: Like you don't have a choice, right?
[00:35:29] Speaker A: Which is still about the consequences because we always have a choice. If I were, if you were to tell me, you know, hey, I have to do this, and I say, okay, well why do you have to do this? You would say, well I have to do it because if I don't, then consequences. So now we're back to that. So why do you feel pressure because of consequences? That's where your attention is. That's where the focus is rather than on the task. Relevant things in this moment right now that you can do to help create conditions for the outcome that you want.
That's where attention needs to be. And if it's there, pressure doesn't exist.
So that's pressure. Stress, on the other hand, is about the situation itself.
Stress. And this comes from a theory for any theory geeks out there called the transactional model of stress.
Stress is about a primary appraisal. I'm in a situation and I appraise the situation. Is there a threat or not? Is there some sort of risk to will something bad happen to me, in my opinion, and it doesn't have to be a fit physical bad thing. It can be a mental, emotional, a social bad thing. In other words, maybe I'm, I, I need to have a conversation with a friend because I think he, he or she is drinking too much.
Well, is that situation a threat? Yeah, because I don't want to lose that relationship, and I think that's a possibility. So there's a threat there. So the primary appraisal is about, is this situation a threat? If the answer is yes, then we move to a secondary appraisal and we ask the question, do I have the resources necessary to deal threat effectively?
And if the answer is no, then we experience stress. So stress is the result of being in a situation that we perceive to be a threat, and we believe we have insufficient resources to deal effectively with that threat.
So stress can be alleviated in two places, whereas pressure is really about the focus on the outcome. So shifting attention back to the present moment and reevaluating, that's very helpful stress. We can change the perception of the threat. So is it a threat really? You know what? Turns out it's not. I can. I can change my perception. I could change the way I'm looking at it. It's not really a threat. Great, then you're not going to experience stress. But if I can't do that, and this is something that I've never heard anybody training this stuff, because everybody like, well, just. It's not a threat. It's an opportunity. It's a challenge. Just change the way you look at it. But I'll tell you what, having stared down the grill of a car coming at me, and my job is to get hit by it, there's no way to gloss that over. Working with the military, where they go into environments where people are shooting at them. You work with firefighters whose job is to go into a. You can't. You can't. Rainbow and unicorn your way out of it. It's a threat. That's what it is. So let's just call a spade a spade and just be done. It's a threat. Okay, but. But you still don't have to experience stress because then we move to that secondary appraisal. Do you have the resources necessary to deal with it?
If the answer is yes, then you can lean in, then you can engage fully, then you can be excited.
So the way to intervene there is helping people realize what resources they have available to them, recognize what their strengths are, recognize what their weaknesses are, use more of the former, augment the latter, and that's where that is. So. So the pressure and stress, two very different things.
And the other piece of pushback that I get from this sometimes is, okay, Brian, I hear you. There are two different things. I got it. And. And all that. But I need stress and pressure in in my life because I tend to perform better in those situations. That's, that's just what I need. My performance improves in those situations where I feel pressure.
And I would say to that, and do say that, um, okay, maybe.
But your performance isn't directly related to the pressure. What's happening is that the pressure or stress is activating the sympathetic nervous system, which is boosting your pumped upness, your energy activation levels. And that energy activation boost is what is facilitating your performance. You're not performing well because of the pressure. You're performing well because of the energy activation boost you're getting from the pressure.
So, but you're still dealing with the challenges of the pressure, for example, meaning your attention's in the wrong spot.
You're not getting the best performance that you can get because your attention's not in the moment.
And the other way that I, that I, that I help people understand the fact that stress and pressure absolutely are counterproductive is this.
Every single one of us has been in the zone at some point. We've call it the zone. You can call it fun flow, I refer to it as my bubble. But we've all been in that place where we are completely present, we are completely immersed in this moment and the performance, our movements, every action just seems to happen of its own accord. There's just a smoothness to it, the normalness and naturalness that occurs. We've all been there in what it could be, cooking a meal. I mean, truly, it doesn't matter what it is, but we've all experienced that.
And in that moment, if you ask somebody to put themselves back into that place when they were, when they were feeling that moment, when that was how life was, and then ask them, okay, so how much stress and pressure were you experiencing while that was going on?
You'll hear the word none every single time. Because stress and pressure don't exist in that world. And then we know that that's the world in which we perform our best.
So.
So by hanging on to this myth that stress and pressure, number one, are inherent in these high stakes environments. And number two, that they're somehow necessary for us to do well, that we have to figure out how to perform with them, is, is just doing a disservice to a lot of people. What we need to do is recognize how they show up, have some tools to eliminate them, and make it more likely that we are able to be at our best and in that flow zone, in that completely present mode more often.
[00:41:40] Speaker B: And that was my next question is, okay, if that's the case, what should we be doing to make sure that we, those, those states, those circumstances show up as little as possible so that we can perform at our best or stay in a flow state, if that's what you want to call it.
What should we be doing? You know, I mean, you could take this.
I feel like it could go as far as everything from exercising and what you eat and make, you know, because it all plays a role. Or we know we just focusing on the mind and what we tell ourselves and the stories we tell ourselves or.
[00:42:14] Speaker A: Yeah, no, we're human beings. So a lot of different things factor in. I break it down into it this way. Physical, mental, emotional, social and spiritual. Spiritual. Not necessarily in a religious sense, more in a I'm part of something larger than myself sense. There's something bigger than just me, but all five of those physical, mental, emotional, social, spiritual and I also. There's a four phased approach to performance that, that we developed when I was working with the military. It's been expanded out to sport and organizations and everywhere else where performance is broken down into those four phases. Before, right, before, during and after. Before, during and after get talked about all the time. But that addition of the right before, that's critical. And it's something that I've recognized in the stunt work that I've done. Because there's the before of sitting in my trailer and just kind of hanging out waiting for them to get ready for me. And then there's the during they call action and I actually do the stunt, whatever it is, but I can't go from my sitting in the trailer state to the falling down the stairs state immediately. Like there's, there's a transition, there's the right before, there's a piece where performance is imminent. Things are about to happen and I need to use that time to create those conditions for my bubble. I gotta, I gotta make my bubble. I have to let go of everything that is not task relevant and immerse myself in this particular moment.
So I use that four phases within each phase. So it's the before phase. Physically, how are you preparing? Mentally, what's going on in your mind? Emotionally, what state works for you? Socially, who's around you? Who are you talking to? What support systems do you have?
Right before, same thing. Physically, are you, what are you doing to get your body into that 100 ready performance state? Mentally, how are you? I don't like to say blocking out. I like to say zeroing in on those task relevant things.
And then during the performance Again, how do I maintain my energy activation levels that are ideal? How do I keep my attention where it needs to be, get it back if I get distracted, and then afterward, how do I recover the energy I've expended? For sure, but also learn from the experience that I've had so that I can incorporate those lessons into the next time I do it. And there usually is a next time. Sometimes it's, it's like on set where there's a take two and the next time is pretty immediate.
Other times it's a little bit more reserved. Like maybe it's a swimming meet or swimming competition where you know you're going to race again, but it's not for, for a little while or it could be another month, two months, maybe a year. Maybe it's a presentation you gave at a conference. Chances are if you gave one, you're going to give another one. Not right away, but it's, it's going to happen. So how do you, how do you learn those lessons and incorporate them? So that's how I break all of that stuff down. Is really training like teaching people what is stress and where does it come from? Transactional model. What is pressure and where does it come from? Focus on the consequences.
How is this performance structured? And how can we, how can we use some of these tools in each phase to help create conditions for us to be at our best? And this is a western philosophy, I mean an eastern philosophy thing that I really, the way I conceptualize it is anything that exists, exists because conditions are right for it to manifest.
So I noticed, for example, there's no grass growing on that wall back there behind you. That's because conditions aren't right for grass to grow on that wall behind you. But if you were to walk outside, chances are you'd see some grass. Why? Because conditions are right for grass to grow there. Well, each of us has certain conditions that are required for us to be at our best.
So how do we create those conditions where peak performance and well being can manifest in each of the environments? That's how I think about that. That and, and breaking it down in the physical, the mental, the emotional, the social, the spiritual. Those are some of those conditions we need to attend to. And when we attend to them is important too. So before, during, you know, before, right before, during and after. So that's how I, that's how I approach the, the, you know, helping people to consistently create conditions for their own success.
[00:46:28] Speaker B: And when you get into those, I'm assuming this, maybe I'm wrong I, I'm in my space, whether it's physical and you, athletic stuff, working out, that kind of stuff, or events, or if I'm doing business coaching or business in general.
I'm a big believer in protecting like your real estate up here. So everything I do all the time is just trying to stay in the right state of mind. And I'm kind of obsessed about that.
Is what you're doing, does it go long term or is it short term for like, hey, this is that one main event. This is what you have to do to be ready? Or is it also the, hey, this is what you can do every day so that there's less work you have to do when those big events come up?
[00:47:12] Speaker A: Yeah, it's.
[00:47:14] Speaker B: Is it both?
[00:47:14] Speaker A: It's both. I mean, it's kind of what I was saying before.
[00:47:17] Speaker B: So there are thought, okay.
[00:47:18] Speaker A: For any given performance, there may be specific challenges. For example, if you, if you were to put me, say, say, okay, Brian, I want you to jump the motorcycle over this thing and then wreck it over there. That's one task. Or if you were to say, all right, Brian, I want you to write an article for, for this particular thing, or I want you to do a presentation for this particular audience. Those are all different things and they require some nuanced, different ways of approaching it. But in general, that, that four phase approach applies to any performance at all.
And physically, mentally, emotionally, socially, spiritually, that's part of humanity. So that's going to apply in all of those different settings.
How stress manifests, how pressure manifests, the things that go into the creation of them, that's not going to change no matter what the situation is. So it really comes down to figuring out what those resources are that we have available to us and practicing the use of those regularly in different places. Places. Because the things that we talk about, these resources and the application of them, those are skills. And they're skills just like any other skill that once upon a time we didn't know how to do, and now we do. Why? Because we learned it, we practiced it, we gained proficiency, and we continue to practice it to keep that proficiency. Mental skills are the exact same way. We have to learn them. We have to have a name, a language and understanding of them. Then we have to practice them and continue practicing them in order to gain and maintain proficiency.
[00:48:50] Speaker B: Interesting.
It's very interesting.
So what, how does someone figure out what they need, how much of it they need from you? Like, let's say I'm having, you know, I guess it's they know that they're having problems, maybe, or they know they're having challenges.
How do they decide? Like, okay, here's. Here's what my problem is, or what are the top three issues you see people have, whether it's military or business?
Is it. Is it a mindset issue? Is it. You know, what do you think that.
[00:49:25] Speaker A: Typically, you know, it varies. Like I said, my focus is mainly on stress, pressure, motivation, burnout. And there are theoretical groundings for each of those. They stem from certain things. Now, what exactly is going on in people's lives that are triggering those. That's stuff that we. That we just need to figure out and come up with.
[00:49:43] Speaker B: That could be deep work. I feel like it can.
[00:49:46] Speaker A: It can be, but usually it's pretty straightforward. You know, I mean, if. Yeah, I feel stressed all the time. Okay, well, if it's stressed, then there's some sort of threat. What's the threat? What are you. What are you afraid of? What do you. What are you hoping isn't gonna happen?
You know, in this situation, there's a lot of different ways you can frame what is the threat, but that's really the question that people have to have to answer. And then once you figure out, okay, well, the threat. I don't. I don't want this. I don't. So. So I. I really need to have a conversation with my spouse about money and how she. She or he is spending it or how we're using it. But I'm afraid of that because I don't want to damage the relationship. I don't want to cause a fight. I don't want any of that. So that's the threat. That's what I'm worried about.
Okay, well, what resources do you have to deal with that? Do you have. I mean, physically, are you. Have you slept? Have you eaten? Because we all know the effect that. That, you know, being hungry and tired can have on the ability to communicate well.
So physically, how's that going?
Mentally, where's your mind? What's your focus? What are your priorities? Where do you really need to put your attention? What's the main point? You want to get across having that straight in your head?
Emotionally, what is the emotion you want to bring into that conversation? So. So you see what I'm saying? So it depends on what the situation is, but we identify the threat, and then we identify the resources that we can bring to hopefully, you know, deal. And once we realize, oh, yeah, I do have the resources, I've. Yes, I've had challenging conversations before. We've had challenging conversations about money. I've answered hard questions about money. I've dealt with all this before. It turns out, yeah, I actually do have this. So I'm not. Now the stress level drops. If not goes away completely, I can go into the conversation and have it in the most effective way possible. And that's true with any performance.
So what I really try to focus people's minds on is to challenge some of those assumptions around these things and give them better information about where stress and pressure come from, the detrimental effects of them, as well as how we can look at them in ways to. To. Or the things that we can do to eliminate them in these environments. And then that can generalize to anything. Whether it's physical performance, mental, it doesn't matter. I teach this stuff to kids, you know, I mean, schools in particular, with homework assignments and tests and presentations and.
And especially the high school kids who are all stressed out over. I have to get this thing in order to get to college. If I don't get to college, you know, there's. That's how they look at stuff and. And you really have to break it down with them. Okay, but is that really.
Is that really as bad as what you think it is? And let's say.
[00:52:22] Speaker B: Let's say that I was thinking kids when you were talking about that, I was like, man, this is. This would be huge for kids.
[00:52:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I have a talk that I developed called Always on the Path. That. That really stemmed from a lot of conversations I had with. With teenagers. Teens. I was a foster parent for four years too, and I had a lot of teens coming in and out of the house and. And I've worked with them in coaching environments and just. Just been around the teens in. In the profession with the. The sports psychology, too. And I kept hearing all the time this. This idea of if I don't finish this test, then I'm gonna. I'm not gonna be able to do this. And then I'm. I'm off the path, essentially. You know, I'm not able to. I gotta hit these mile markers along the way. Otherwise life's gonna be a whole detour, and I'm just gonna. It's gonna be hard to get back on if. If impossible. And it's just. That's wrong. It's. It's there. There is no. There is no path in front of us. If we turn around, there's a path behind us because we've made it. We can see very clearly where we've been and we can make Connections of, oh, yeah, this led to this and this led to that. But if we turn around and look in front of us, there is no path. The path ends under our feet and it gets created with each step that we take.
So. So this idea that, that if I fail, then my life is going to be over. Well, you don't know that that's the future. You're predicting the future. And all of us as humans are bad at that. But let's say you're right. Let's say that you're right about the fact that if you fail, you're not going to get into that college.
Is that a bad thing?
We don't know, because time has to continue. My favorite story is that it's an old Chinese story about it. There's an old Chinese guy and. And his.
His horse runs away and the neighbor comes over and the neighbor says, oh, man, your horse ran away. That really sucks. And the guy's like, yeah, I don't know, maybe. So the guy's son goes out to go look for the horse, finds the horse along with five new horses, brings them back. The neighbor's like, oh my God, you got five new horses. That's fantastic. Guys like, I don't know, maybe son gets on one of the new horses to break it, gets thrown off, breaks his leg. Neighbors, oh man, your son broke his leg. That sucks.
I don't know. Maybe army comes by to conscript people for a war that's happening, but the son's leg is broken, so they don't take him. And they was like, oh, man, they didn't take your son. That's fantastic. I don't know, maybe that story tells. So there's so much wisdom in that, because from my own personal experience, I've been divorced twice. And if you were to ask me in the middle of that divorce, was that a good thing or a bad thing, I would say it was a bad thing and did. It was a horrible thing.
Now, looking back with again, having had more experiences and. And just different perspective, I say it's a good thing. It was an unpleasant thing. I wouldn't want to repeat it. But it wasn't a bad thing. It was a good thing. So even if we're right about the consequences associated with success or failure, we can't be as sure about whether those consequences are good or bad.
It's at least worth the humility to question.
[00:55:25] Speaker B: True. Interesting.
That's a neat story. And it does have a lot of lessons in it. You're right. And I think that's I love the way you say, hey, nothing's been created yet. The path ends underneath your feet. You're going to create that path tomorrow. And as you go right, each day builds on that day. So.
[00:55:46] Speaker A: So it's impossible to be off the path. You can't be off the path. There's just no way.
[00:55:51] Speaker B: You just can't.
[00:55:52] Speaker A: It's no way to do it.
[00:55:53] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. That's really interesting.
[00:55:57] Speaker A: So, well, and from my own story, this is what makes it so powerful because again, you know, yes, the expectations were go to college, get the job, do, but. And here I am. I'm. And I have a PhD. I'm an adjunct faculty at a college. I've written a book. I have my own business. I also work as a stuntman. That's all kind of weird and a lot of that doesn't really go together, but it's, it's. But there was a. There's a clear path. I can look behind me and I can see the very clear path.
So even though it seemed like me, like if you were to think about it in traditional terms, oh, he was off the path when he got arrested for this, or he was, he was off the path when he got divorced or he was off the path when he moved from here to here.
Well, no, it was all part of the path, as you can see. Look behind me, there it is. It's all part of my path.
[00:56:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:56:42] Speaker A: So we are never off the path. Never.
[00:56:45] Speaker B: It's really interesting and it's a good way to look at it. I think a lot of people get some value out of that.
[00:56:51] Speaker A: So.
[00:56:53] Speaker B: Wrapping up, is there anything that we didn't talk about or any nuggets that someone needs to hear? I mean, obviously I want to get to where do they find you if they have questions. But like, is there anything else that you think would really cap off what we've talked about today or. No. Have we covered a pretty good no?
[00:57:10] Speaker A: Yeah, we've made it all. I just would reiterate again that stress and pressure, number one, are two different things. And neither allows us to be at our best. We are at our best when we are fully immersed in the present moment, completely engaged with task relevant things. That's when we're at our best and that's just not possible.
And feel stress and pressure, those don't go together.
So stress and pressure should be looked at as just red flags that something's off. And if it's pressure that we're experiencing, that red Flag should, should let us know that our attention is in the wrong place. We're focused too much on the potential outcomes, the consequences.
If stress is what we're experiencing, that should be a red flag that we're perceiving a threat and we're doubting our ability to deal with that threat effectively.
And just with that knowledge alone, we can change things around. We can turn things around. We can, we can challenge the assumption that it is a threat. We can look more closely at our resources and we can shift our attention from the consequences back to the present moment. Because at the end of the day, the future, those consequences will be determined by what happens right now in this moment. So if those consequences really are important to you and they really are what you want, you got to shift your attention off of them as quickly as possible into this present moment. Because this present moment will determine whether you get what you want or don't.
[00:58:40] Speaker B: Yeah, well said.
Where can people find you if they want to reach out, ask questions?
[00:58:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I invite people to check out the website, which is currently. It's, it's. I don't know when this is going to air, but it's, it's going through some, some shifts and changes that hopefully are going to be done here pretty soon. But Brian Height Global B R I A N G L O B A L dot com. That's the website. You can always email me directly. I will for sure get back to you. You can email me at brian brianheight global.com and, and yeah, if, if any of this stuff has resonated with you, if you have a hard time or have had challenges with stress, pressure, motivation, burnout, either for yourself or those you lead, please reach out. I'd love to have a conversation with you about how we might be able to take some of these concepts and implement them in your world. It's a hard thing to navigate on your own.
I've been in all of those places where they were affecting me badly, stress, pressure and burnout.
And I'd love to be there to help you. So please reach out.
[00:59:42] Speaker B: Love it. Love it. I feel like it'd be great for team leaders and owners of companies too, so I could see how all this plays a role.
Brian, thank you, buddy. And I appreciate it. I learned a lot and this was a good, this was good for me and I'm sure it was, it was good and valuable for everybody else.
Thanks for, thanks for being on. We really appreciate your time, man.
[01:00:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I appreciate you having me on. Thank you very much for the discussion.
[01:00:07] Speaker B: Absolutely all right, everybody, we'll catch you on the next episode. Until next time. Talk to you later.
It.
